polls will state that the majority is in favour as long as a certain section of the public is polled. That's always been the way.
2
Thursday, 25 August 2011 07:53
KSW
Are polls a sound representation of people's views? Put on the spot in a random situation, there can be pressure for the 'uncaring randoms', as you say, to pick the politically correct response. There's no accountability and not much thought behind a simple yes/no answer.
As you recognised, people are acting pro-actively when they submit their views to politicians. The likelihood that they're going to do that on a whim is slim, especially since they are communicating personally and identifying their name and electorate. This method is a better representation of perspectives that have been thought through.
In any case, there are likely to be many people on both sides of the argument who don't have an interest in it as a voting issue strong enough to voice their opinion. It's impossible to know which side has more silent supporters.
3
Thursday, 25 August 2011 21:43
mariabe
I think "gay marriage"There is no such thing.
Why can be "gay union" "gay pack" "gay eslabon"
Call it any thing is meaningfull..
but not marriage.because that association is for a man and a woman to procreate "children" a not to go and confuse
the lavoratories and the poor kids and society.
Guy people should be responsable of there inclanations and problems....Create your own laws and protections and
"STOP TRYING TO BE WHAT YOU ARE NOT" normal woman and man.
4
Monday, 03 October 2011 22:44
Jerry Coleby-Williams
I support civil unions, it's a term less politically tainted than 'marriage', (because it's important to protect decent people from religious fundamentalism). Religion needs to be kept out of the politics of love.
Since I am not straight, I can't apply for a partner visa for my same sex partner. That ridiculous loophole must change too.
5
Monday, 03 October 2011 22:47
Gabriel Malocca
Why don't you do a poll Graham? You have the talent to ask the right question without favour to one side or another. All other polls to date are slanted one way or another.
6
Monday, 03 October 2011 22:58
Sheila Maureen Hale
Today such basic concepts as "family" must now accommodate the desires of a tiny deviant minority! The entire world's rejection for over 4,000 years of homosexuality as harmful and unnatural must be laid aside. And the rationale is always the same: elimination of "discrimination" Will it one day be "discrimination" to deny pedophiles their "rights"? Are today's offending Catholic priests just slightly ahead of their time?
Marriage between one man and one woman was instituted by God. To bless "same-sex marriages" is a travesty for this is not marriage as God established and blessed it! There is no bottom to depravity's depths once God's Word has been abandoned as the final authority. Even normal sex outside of marriage disqualifies one from associating with other Christians "....any man that is called a brother who is a fornicator....with such an one don't even eat....put away from yourselves that wicked person." (1 Cor 5:5-134.
Marriage is a potent symbol of Christ and His Bride the Living invisible Church. This is a Church not made with hands, bricks and mortar it is not a Church that will fade away for it lives forever and the only entry to this Church is through Christ's body by His Holy Spirit. On being born again the Holy Spirit-filled Believer enters Christ's body. It is a symbol of a man entering his wife. We are as Believers are His Bride in waiting and will one day be taken up to be with Him in the atmospheric heavens when our Bridegroom returns for His own (the Rapture or Parousia) and then to have the Marriage Supper with the Lamb of God.
Those who refuse to accept the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) are in rebellion to God find it satisfactory to make up their own rules by which they want to live they do what feels good for them and rise above their Creator. They live their lives by a worldly value system, do not have a care for the sacrificial death of the Messiah and are not saved and the will not see the light of God and will endure separation from Christ forever. Going to church, doing good works, holding high office is of no use to a Holy God this is all useless.
7
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 00:18
graham
Hi Gabriel, it's an idea. Maybe explore attitudes to homosexuality. As these comments indicate there are a lot of people who feel aggressively anti-homosexual, and you will also see people who are aggressively pro-homosexual, but I'm not sure where and how the majority sit.
There is certainly lots of anti-gay banter in everyday male talk, which suggests that many are challenged by homosexuality, yet I suspect the number of assaults on gays as gays has declined in recent years. It's interesting that this item has just caught the eye of a few posters out of all the others on the site. It is certainly an emotive issue.
8
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 00:38
Meg777
How is it that it was 'trendy' to claim that marriage was no more than a 'piece of paper' a few years back...now the gays want it to legitimise what they are doing...it is still the same unpalatable act. For all the gay banter and snickering or 'caught in the headlights' support for homosexuality...the majority are still engaging in these practices in public toilets or other places, some as predators of small children and some confronting other non-homosexual males. I am sick of homosexual condom adverts in my face and my children's faces every time we go ont public transport, etc. The whole gay thing 'coming out' has not made society safer from the sexual predators - it has made it worse...how soon will we be asked to allow paedophiles as 'can't change who they are' or 'have to allow them to be true to who and what they are'...homosexuality is an unnatural act and so is paedophilia - some US states are already trying to argue for no age limits to sexual activity and the de-criminalising of paedophilia (as was done with homosexuality)...and so it begins!
9
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 00:50
Private Citizen
The problem with the members statements is that the sample size is less than people they would have lunch with in a month. If your member is on record for being opposed or you dislike your member would you visit their website to take a poll? would you even open their newsletter to see the advertisement? Classic political head in the sand. I decided not to move to hinkler with the rest of the family because of the homophobia I experienced in a one week visit. I realised that not only would I be danger but I would be putting my whole family in danger.
10
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 00:57
JimA
Your commentators seem to confirm the principal thesis of the article.
I never cease to be amazed at how many Christians feel so entitled to hate and bully people unlike themselves. The degree of venom shocks.
It is an issue as to whether the State should be supporting this bigotry or whether it has a duty to treat all citizens equally, even around issuews of family formation.
I am no great supporter of marriage, either gay or straight, but I do think if you are going to have it, it should be for everyone who wants in.
The churches spend a lot of time talking about protecting the family, but then narrow the definition and attemt to deny those outside their definition any legal existence. Is it the function of the State to support this?
It is an interesting example to look at inheritence laws since they still discriminate against some children who were born out of wedlock or were rejected by their parents, especially if the estate was left to the church. What does this say about protecting the family?
Laws on family/household formation need to be recast in a way that treats citizens equally and protects them from arbitrary action and bigotry. And that's where the debate needs to be had.
11
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 01:15
Peter Gregory
Do the poll Graham. I am with the others who agree you have the ability to ask the right questions that will not bias one way or the other.
Also, I am very much aggrieved that these tiny self interest minority groups feel they have a right to force society to completely change just to suit them. And if you criticise them, you are vilified and labelled. In effect, you are abused by the homosexal lobby and all the other anti-establishment and anti-Christian groups.
A marriage is between a man and a woman. Get over it and invent your own name for your union.
How dare they try to tell us and our children that sodomy is in anyway normal or even acceptable in this age. This disgusting behaviour is not only an abomination before the sight of God, but also an abomination to thousands of years of the existence of Mankind.
We need to have this debate with more fervour and we need to stop this disgusting evil from being spoken of in our schools.
Even the state school my children go to, tells children in sex ed classes that homosexuality is normal.
I wrote a letter to the principal and demanded that they do not tell that lie to my children.
they also allow people into the school waving the rainbow flag, which is a political flag.
There are no restrictions on this depravity and innocent children everywhere are being effected by this.
We must do something to stop it dead in its tracks, before it is too late.
12
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 01:44
The Coach
I was in America when Tea Party darling Christine O'Donnell walked off an interview by Piers Morgan (former British newspaper editor) because he asked her to clarify on air her views on the issue, which she had written about in a book. In the wash-up from this it became clear that the Tea Party has realised it is no longer a vote winner for them. The religious rednecks are opposed to gay marriage, but the Tea Party has their votes anyway. For Middle America it is no longer an issue, and indeed the polling now indicates that they get turned off by pollies who rant on against it.
13
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 02:22
Pedro
I'm unsure how you got your figures Graham? Australia is not pro Gay marriage. The vote at the Parliament Report where members were asked to test their electorate: two thirds were in favour of marriage being between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others. Three members were undecided. I think the member for Mitchem had a 95% response in favour of marriage laws remaining the same.
14
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 03:29
The Coach
Pedro, clearly Graham did proper research to get his results, and just as in America, Australia no longer cares. It's a non issue, except for the religious bigots such as those we have seen above. If God exists, I doubt she cares either.
15
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 03:55
graham
Pedro, the evidence was from this Wikipedia entry which summarised major polling on the issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Australia#Public_opinion_polls.
I linked to the entry in the beginning of the article.
Support did seem to wax and wane a bit, but had moved significantly in the last 10 years.
16
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 04:15
Explorer
If there is no use of the word marriage then I believe support for an equal union for gays is overwhelming. Some people want the current meaning of the word marriage preserved and don't want to be in a relationship that has a shared name as the equivalent relationship of gays, but don't necessarily want gays discriminated against in civil rights.
17
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 06:54
Mark Wagner
Graham- There is no need to conduct a poll solely on same sex marriage, this is only attention seeking from agitators of this "cause". this matter could be done in the next quarterly poll with only 3 questions 1. do you support same sex marriage. 2 comment on why/why not and importance ranking. Any further analysis could be done in what people usually vote/voting intentions. I bet that the people that already vote greens and leftie Laborites (who would never change their vote) are the support base that rank high importance. This, combined with the impending annihilation of Labor with the lefties going to greens anyway will mean that there is no practical support for a change in the marriage Act. I reckon that the support of same sex marriage that is a vote changer would be less than 2%....so this is just a beat up non issue from the insanely political correct.
18
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 09:05
The Coach
Precisely, Mark Wagner. It isn't a big time vote changer. That's clearly what the Tea Party's polling was telling them, but they came to realise that striking a strongly homophobic note (in the way that bible-thumpers Sheila Hale and Peter Gregory have done above) will NOT resonate well with the ordinary voter of little or no religious alignment, most of whom have by now in 2011 come to accept same sex unions as a matter of free personal choice, don't remotely see them as abominations, and simply aren't that agitated about what they are called.
19
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 09:58
John T
Wikipedia gives a remarkably good definition - and 'between a man and a woman' is not mentioned:
Marriage is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony.
People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. In some societies these obligations also extend to certain family members of the married persons. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.
Marriage is usually recognized by the state, a religious authority, or both. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
I am exceedingly straight and in my sixties. I cannot see any reason for not legalising marriage btween same-sex couples, People are not legally married in a church; the legally married bit is from the official civil documents they sign after the religious ceremony.
Why not admit that a civil union is marriage, formalise/legalise it in the Marriage Act, but still allow each individual religion to decide whether they want to permit same-sex marriage in their church/mosque/synagogue/temple. What do the God-botherers fear?
20
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 10:35
Lil J
Let the "gay's have their "Civil Union". It will perhaps stop them from preying on older women/ or any women to get what they want - they are greedy selfish and a thoroughly obnoxios breed.
21
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 13:28
Sandra
Allow those Gays who want it, to have a "Civil Union" and leave "Marriage" to a man and woman as it has always been. That should allow them their recognition, protection and legal standing and if that is the real basis for their grievances, then that should put an end to all this public shouting of homophobia.
22
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 14:10
Private Citizen
@Mark Wagner Et Al, the debate highlights to me that many opposed to same sex marraige, are simply opposed to anything same sex. The bile, and hatred, that flows is truly disgusting, definitelty not WWJD.
So I would suggest that the question could be 1. do you support same sex marriage? 2. Do you support civil unions for same sex relationships 3. do you support efforts to remove discrimination on the basis of sexuality? that would seperate the issue of Marraige from those opposed to homosexuality.
many are fighting over the definition in the Marraige Act. A definition that was only changed in 2004 when Howard decided to wedge Latham while blocking recognition of overseas marraiges. Because it was a nonissue back then as well, that happened to justify the need for an amendment.
Recently when the Aboriginals supported 40 years since the referendum that recognised them as citizens. I was shocked to realise although I was over 40, I only became a legal member of society at the age of 16, when homosexuality was decriminalised in 1984 (NSW), and federally at the age of 26, when parliament had to act to decriminalise homosexuality on the basis of a right to privacy.
Many see same sex marraige as not a priority, i admit it i am in no hurry to marry. But I understand those who do want to get married legally. Every childs tale indoctrinates marraige as an ideal expression of love and commitment.
I dont think anyone should live their entire one and only life being denied equalilty as an Australian citizen. Having being denied legal recognition for the first 26 years of my life I can assure you of its importance.
23
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 20:13
Serge
I wonder who has been polled (one can really maniputlate research simply by choose a certain target audience or demographic). I work in the health sector (an area where people tend to have less conservative views) and the only people who seem to be pro gay marriage are a few aged under 25 or gay people.
I am opposed to gay marriage as I believe a marriage is not only a public affirmation of one's love (one can do that in any number of civil ceremonies/unions) but the preferred precursor to having a family.
I am also against any type of adoption outside of marriage (as we understand th term to mean today...between a man and a woman)because I believe having children is a privilege and a responsibility NOT a right, and that a child needs 'mum (female)love' as well as 'dad (male) love...because, hey, men and woman ARE different, 'mum love' is different to 'dad love', and kids need both. Let's put the kids' rights first!
24
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 20:39
Serge
Oh, having read a few more comments, and just for the record, my aforementined views have nothing to do with the issue of homosexuality, gay-ness, sexual orientation or whatever other term is PC these days. Gay people can live together, get tax breaks and should have all the rights of any body else who is in a longstanding partner relationship..and if they are missing out on any rights that heterosexual couples (married or unmarried) have, then that should be redressed.
My perspective is from the point of view of definition (what is (a) marriage) and particularly from the point of view of children....those who truly have no voice in this debate (ethically and practically impossible but I wonder what children would respond to if asked what they would rather: two male parents, two female parents, a single parent of either gender or a mum and dad, and sorry for those who will think that the terms 'mum' and 'dad' are unfairly emotive but what would two same-gender parents be referred as (two dads...two mum...a mum and a dad...interchangeable mum and dad - one is mum one week and dad the next?).
Oh, and whlst I've met plenty of bigotted, self-important, self-opinionated Christians (and non-?Christians for that matter), and, as I believe, a fairly objective peruser of the Australian media, it seems to me that on this page of comments, and in the media and public arena generally, that the bullying and hatred, vile and invective is mostly directed against Christians rather than by them (though of course every group will have it's looney fringe).
25
Tuesday, 04 October 2011 23:20
Private Citizen
@serge if your beliefs on adoption would be implemented then many children would never get a home. Many children are raised in single parent families and huge numbers of children are fostered by single parents, such as grand mothers. According to ABS over 1.5 million Australians live in a one parent family. (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~One%20parent%20families%20%285.3.4.1%29)
I agree marraige and child raising is a privilege. A privilege that too many heterosexuals take for granted. Many achieve the goal and then disrepect it through Adultery or neglect. They are allowed to do it again and again and again.
Being denied the privilege, being told that I am not worthy, while watching the "privileged" disregard, disrespect and neglect their partners and children just adds further insult to injury.
From my point of view, these inequalities discount my existence, discount my contribution. Yet they take my tax dollars to put your kids through school, even to schools that promote hostility and intolerance towards me. You want me to share the burden but not the privileges.
It is heartening that the youth of today are increasingly more accepting. They have watched the world and the arguments. They have seen through the hypocrisy. One day soon Australia may become an accepting society without ever acheiving its touted title as a tolerant society.
26
Wednesday, 05 October 2011 01:40
Wayne D
The reporting back that the MPs did was influenced by the religious right who encouraged the flocks to write to their MPs. That biased the results. While at the same time most Australians couldn't care about same sex marriage and didn't bother to contact their MP's.
Sheila - you use religion to justify your opinions - that's what's wrong with our country. Too much irrelevant religion being used to justify inequality.
Meg77 - only a very tiny percentage of the gay community engages in sex acts in public and the rest of us shouldn't be demonised because of it. Get the police to arrest them. That's what the law is for. And you equate gay with pedophile. Most pedophilia is heterosexual and occurs in the family.
Lil J - your bigotry is showing - badly
What it comes down to is EQUALITY. We pay the same amount of taxes yet we do not have full equality; and civil unions while a step in the right direction are still less than equal. I want to be able to say to my partner - will you marry me - not will you civil union me.
And with nearly half of all marriages ending in divorce - clearly marriage means bugger all to people these days.
27
Wednesday, 05 October 2011 13:08
sweet choc
Gay marriage, straight marriage, ... well who cares about how other people conduct their lives as long as they are law abiding, caring individuals. As a staunch Christian, my teacher is Christ who advocated love, humility and caring for each other. To hell with the men who came after to impose their personal, bigoted views & interpretations on the rest of us. Their desire to subjugate women and others who are different is well known. If gays want a marriage, I am all for that!
28
Thursday, 06 October 2011 06:06
The Coach
Serge wrote: "I am opposed to gay marriage as I believe a marriage is not only a public affirmation of one's love (one can do that in any number of civil ceremonies/unions) but the preferred precursor to having a family."
My wife and I were way beyond child-bearing age when we married, but we have been blissfully happy for three years. But by Serge's argument ours should not be called a marriage as there was no possibility of a family.
29
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As you recognised, people are acting pro-actively when they submit their views to politicians. The likelihood that they're going to do that on a whim is slim, especially since they are communicating personally and identifying their name and electorate. This method is a better representation of perspectives that have been thought through.
In any case, there are likely to be many people on both sides of the argument who don't have an interest in it as a voting issue strong enough to voice their opinion. It's impossible to know which side has more silent supporters.
Why can be "gay union" "gay pack" "gay eslabon"
Call it any thing is meaningfull..
but not marriage.because that association is for a man and a woman to procreate "children" a not to go and confuse
the lavoratories and the poor kids and society.
Guy people should be responsable of there inclanations and problems....Create your own laws and protections and
"STOP TRYING TO BE WHAT YOU ARE NOT" normal woman and man.
Since I am not straight, I can't apply for a partner visa for my same sex partner. That ridiculous loophole must change too.
Marriage between one man and one woman was instituted by God. To bless "same-sex marriages" is a travesty for this is not marriage as God established and blessed it! There is no bottom to depravity's depths once God's Word has been abandoned as the final authority. Even normal sex outside of marriage disqualifies one from associating with other Christians "....any man that is called a brother who is a fornicator....with such an one don't even eat....put away from yourselves that wicked person." (1 Cor 5:5-134.
Marriage is a potent symbol of Christ and His Bride the Living invisible Church. This is a Church not made with hands, bricks and mortar it is not a Church that will fade away for it lives forever and the only entry to this Church is through Christ's body by His Holy Spirit. On being born again the Holy Spirit-filled Believer enters Christ's body. It is a symbol of a man entering his wife. We are as Believers are His Bride in waiting and will one day be taken up to be with Him in the atmospheric heavens when our Bridegroom returns for His own (the Rapture or Parousia) and then to have the Marriage Supper with the Lamb of God.
Those who refuse to accept the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) are in rebellion to God find it satisfactory to make up their own rules by which they want to live they do what feels good for them and rise above their Creator. They live their lives by a worldly value system, do not have a care for the sacrificial death of the Messiah and are not saved and the will not see the light of God and will endure separation from Christ forever. Going to church, doing good works, holding high office is of no use to a Holy God this is all useless.
There is certainly lots of anti-gay banter in everyday male talk, which suggests that many are challenged by homosexuality, yet I suspect the number of assaults on gays as gays has declined in recent years. It's interesting that this item has just caught the eye of a few posters out of all the others on the site. It is certainly an emotive issue.
I never cease to be amazed at how many Christians feel so entitled to hate and bully people unlike themselves. The degree of venom shocks.
It is an issue as to whether the State should be supporting this bigotry or whether it has a duty to treat all citizens equally, even around issuews of family formation.
I am no great supporter of marriage, either gay or straight, but I do think if you are going to have it, it should be for everyone who wants in.
The churches spend a lot of time talking about protecting the family, but then narrow the definition and attemt to deny those outside their definition any legal existence. Is it the function of the State to support this?
It is an interesting example to look at inheritence laws since they still discriminate against some children who were born out of wedlock or were rejected by their parents, especially if the estate was left to the church. What does this say about protecting the family?
Laws on family/household formation need to be recast in a way that treats citizens equally and protects them from arbitrary action and bigotry. And that's where the debate needs to be had.
Also, I am very much aggrieved that these tiny self interest minority groups feel they have a right to force society to completely change just to suit them. And if you criticise them, you are vilified and labelled. In effect, you are abused by the homosexal lobby and all the other anti-establishment and anti-Christian groups.
A marriage is between a man and a woman. Get over it and invent your own name for your union.
How dare they try to tell us and our children that sodomy is in anyway normal or even acceptable in this age. This disgusting behaviour is not only an abomination before the sight of God, but also an abomination to thousands of years of the existence of Mankind.
We need to have this debate with more fervour and we need to stop this disgusting evil from being spoken of in our schools.
Even the state school my children go to, tells children in sex ed classes that homosexuality is normal.
I wrote a letter to the principal and demanded that they do not tell that lie to my children.
they also allow people into the school waving the rainbow flag, which is a political flag.
There are no restrictions on this depravity and innocent children everywhere are being effected by this.
We must do something to stop it dead in its tracks, before it is too late.
I linked to the entry in the beginning of the article.
Support did seem to wax and wane a bit, but had moved significantly in the last 10 years.
Marriage is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony.
People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. In some societies these obligations also extend to certain family members of the married persons. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.
Marriage is usually recognized by the state, a religious authority, or both. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
I am exceedingly straight and in my sixties. I cannot see any reason for not legalising marriage btween same-sex couples, People are not legally married in a church; the legally married bit is from the official civil documents they sign after the religious ceremony.
Why not admit that a civil union is marriage, formalise/legalise it in the Marriage Act, but still allow each individual religion to decide whether they want to permit same-sex marriage in their church/mosque/synagogue/temple. What do the God-botherers fear?
So I would suggest that the question could be 1. do you support same sex marriage? 2. Do you support civil unions for same sex relationships 3. do you support efforts to remove discrimination on the basis of sexuality? that would seperate the issue of Marraige from those opposed to homosexuality.
many are fighting over the definition in the Marraige Act. A definition that was only changed in 2004 when Howard decided to wedge Latham while blocking recognition of overseas marraiges. Because it was a nonissue back then as well, that happened to justify the need for an amendment.
Recently when the Aboriginals supported 40 years since the referendum that recognised them as citizens. I was shocked to realise although I was over 40, I only became a legal member of society at the age of 16, when homosexuality was decriminalised in 1984 (NSW), and federally at the age of 26, when parliament had to act to decriminalise homosexuality on the basis of a right to privacy.
Many see same sex marraige as not a priority, i admit it i am in no hurry to marry. But I understand those who do want to get married legally. Every childs tale indoctrinates marraige as an ideal expression of love and commitment.
I dont think anyone should live their entire one and only life being denied equalilty as an Australian citizen. Having being denied legal recognition for the first 26 years of my life I can assure you of its importance.
I am opposed to gay marriage as I believe a marriage is not only a public affirmation of one's love (one can do that in any number of civil ceremonies/unions) but the preferred precursor to having a family.
I am also against any type of adoption outside of marriage (as we understand th term to mean today...between a man and a woman)because I believe having children is a privilege and a responsibility NOT a right, and that a child needs 'mum (female)love' as well as 'dad (male) love...because, hey, men and woman ARE different, 'mum love' is different to 'dad love', and kids need both. Let's put the kids' rights first!
My perspective is from the point of view of definition (what is (a) marriage) and particularly from the point of view of children....those who truly have no voice in this debate (ethically and practically impossible but I wonder what children would respond to if asked what they would rather: two male parents, two female parents, a single parent of either gender or a mum and dad, and sorry for those who will think that the terms 'mum' and 'dad' are unfairly emotive but what would two same-gender parents be referred as (two dads...two mum...a mum and a dad...interchangeable mum and dad - one is mum one week and dad the next?).
Oh, and whlst I've met plenty of bigotted, self-important, self-opinionated Christians (and non-?Christians for that matter), and, as I believe, a fairly objective peruser of the Australian media, it seems to me that on this page of comments, and in the media and public arena generally, that the bullying and hatred, vile and invective is mostly directed against Christians rather than by them (though of course every group will have it's looney fringe).
I agree marraige and child raising is a privilege. A privilege that too many heterosexuals take for granted. Many achieve the goal and then disrepect it through Adultery or neglect. They are allowed to do it again and again and again.
Being denied the privilege, being told that I am not worthy, while watching the "privileged" disregard, disrespect and neglect their partners and children just adds further insult to injury.
From my point of view, these inequalities discount my existence, discount my contribution. Yet they take my tax dollars to put your kids through school, even to schools that promote hostility and intolerance towards me. You want me to share the burden but not the privileges.
It is heartening that the youth of today are increasingly more accepting. They have watched the world and the arguments. They have seen through the hypocrisy. One day soon Australia may become an accepting society without ever acheiving its touted title as a tolerant society.
Sheila - you use religion to justify your opinions - that's what's wrong with our country. Too much irrelevant religion being used to justify inequality.
Meg77 - only a very tiny percentage of the gay community engages in sex acts in public and the rest of us shouldn't be demonised because of it. Get the police to arrest them. That's what the law is for. And you equate gay with pedophile. Most pedophilia is heterosexual and occurs in the family.
Lil J - your bigotry is showing - badly
What it comes down to is EQUALITY. We pay the same amount of taxes yet we do not have full equality; and civil unions while a step in the right direction are still less than equal. I want to be able to say to my partner - will you marry me - not will you civil union me.
And with nearly half of all marriages ending in divorce - clearly marriage means bugger all to people these days.
My wife and I were way beyond child-bearing age when we married, but we have been blissfully happy for three years. But by Serge's argument ours should not be called a marriage as there was no possibility of a family.
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